High-Achieving Men, Alcohol, and Identity: A Candid Conversation with Adam Mayhew

Rachel Kugel: Hey everybody, this is Rachel Defends you. I’m Rachel Kugel, and today we have the incredible Adam Mayhew with us. I’m so excited to have him from across the pond. I’m in New York, he’s in England, but he’s been kind enough to jump on here with me today. I’ve been following him for a while. I’m so excited to introduce you to his work.

I mean, a lot of his work is directed at high performing men. While I am not one of those, I do have a lot of high performing men in my life. Both in terms of my clientele, in terms of my colleagues. I’m even married to one. So I find his work to be really incredible. I also think that he’s got a lot to share with us in terms of some decisions around being sober, curious, some tips around that and how that can really play into having a really incredible life. Adam is a high performance coach for high performance men.

He helps them to drop the booze, find their edge, and build lives that they actually want to live, and that they don’t have to run away and escape from. He runs I think with a partner, a game consultancy, which again is a high performance consulting company that has programs, retreats, et cetera.

And he’s just incredible. He’s a high performance man himself and I’m so pleased and excited. Adam, thank you so much for coming to have this conversation with me. I appreciate it.

Adam Mayhew: Thank you. Yeah, it’s great to be here. Really looking forward to having a conversation. 

Rachel Kugel: I think this is really relevant to the people that follow and listen to me because I’m a criminal defense attorney focusing on DWI defense.

I’m a private attorney, so I cost money, right? I’m not a public defender, so most of my clients are nice, normal, regular people. Most of them are men. They are working, they are successful. They lead financially successful lives. They’re at the top of their career. But a lot of times, they still struggle with substances, with relationships, with judgment.

And I know you’ve built your career around helping high performing men, stop running from their lives and their own success. How did you end up there? What was the moment in your life for you? Were you trying to escape yours? How did you end up in this incredible place?

Adam Mayhew: So my background is corporate IT tech. I worked up to support manager to operations manager, mainly in software and tech companies. And I burnt myself out in the process, climbing the corporate ladder, wanting to get to the top and burn myself out.

And my relationship with alcohol, I wasn’t an alcoholic. I was just what I refer to as a normal drinker. A midlane drinker. I wouldn’t really drink Monday to Friday. Might have a couple of beers on a Friday, but Saturday night, the alcohol would happen. It was party party. And that was my life for a very, very long time.

I’m 39 now, nearly 40. And it went on throughout twenties, as you know, most 20 year olds do in mid twenties, thirties, 35. We go out and drink. Little did I know that was having a major impact on me burning out and trying to climb up the corporate ladder.

A lot of the stress and anxiety that came with the job. The drinking was actually enhancing all of that, and I didn’t know it at the time. I was very stressed, very anxious, becoming very tired. I wasn’t sleeping well. I was overweight, getting frustrated, and obviously that’s just in the, you know, wells working.

But that was playing out into my relationships. I’m married now, with two young boys. My wife now, even before we were married, she said, yeah, you used to be really moody. You’d have major mood swings. I was like, did I? I didn’t know I used to do that. So I went on this transformational journey of stopping drinking.

I listened to a podcast by two guys, twins called the Happy Pear, which they’re very popular in the vegan community in health. I was listening to their podcast, and this is going back seven plus years ago, and they were talking about sobriety and how they don’t drink.

These guys are the most energetic people you’ll ever meet. They are so down to earth. I’ve actually met them as well. I met them a few years ago. I couldn’t understand how can you have so much fun and have so much energy, and not only that, you build a very successful business, which is now turning over multiple millions and you don’t drink.

And that was the epiphany moment for me when I was sat there. Very stressed, very anxious. On a Sunday when I’d been out the night before and I was listening to this podcast and I thought, that’s it. I’m gonna take a break from alcohol. I’d never done a dry January, I’d never done a sober October, and I took a break from alcohol and it completely transformed my life. Now, I’m five years in my business and this is what I do.

I coach others to not only stop drinking but master their habits, master themselves so they can improve their relationship with themselves, improve their relationships with other people. They can thrive in all areas of their life.

Rachel Kugel: And I know drinking is just one piece of it. I know that your programs are way more than that.

But it’s interesting because even though it’s one piece of it. It seems like it’s a big piece or like a gateway, maybe in like the good way. You know, people always talk about gateway in a bad way, but in a way it seems like it’s the gateway because it almost triggers a change in focus from partying, numbing, anxiety, stress to focusing on health and controlling desires and emotions.

And, you know, just being as a man, being more in charge of one’s desires and urges, I guess maybe is the way to put it. So it seems like while drinking’s not like the main thing, it sort of seems like maybe the first thing or one of the first things it’s part of your programming.

Adam Mayhew: Yeah, it’s the catalyst and we don’t force it onto our clients. There’s a couple of giants that still have the odd drink. But, some clients come to us and they’re already alcohol free. So our model is known as the SAS model, sobriety, alignment, and self-mastery. That’s the program.

One pillar is the sobriety, the alcohol free side, but we don’t force it on our clients. Now, some of our clients, most of ’em, are very successful. They’re running very successful businesses or they’re very senior in the company.

But if they come to us and they’re still drinking, our argument is that, look, you can be even more successful, but not just successful in business and in work, successful in your relationships, successful in your health. We’ve had clients come to us where their business is booming and the relationships are okay, but then we’ve run a blood test on them and a DNA test and their internal health is not looking great at all.

So that’s the thing with our program as well, it’s quite a holistic program. We bring in a nutritional therapy element to it as well, where we look at your bloods, your internal health and see how well you’re performing. Part of that is liver health.

And it’s like, wow, this is impacting you and you can be even more successful in your relationships, with your health, with your sleep when you remove the booze. So it’s so powerful when you do it.

Rachel Kugel: I know a lot of people in my community, in my friend group, that are very successful, top in banking, top in entrepreneurship, top in law.

They have a lot of problems finding success in terms of relationships, marriages. And I feel like they hit a point maybe in their forties, maybe in their fifties, where they really hit a wall in terms of, Hey, I thought I really wanted all this financial success.

I ran myself ragged in my twenties, right? To get all this financial here. I’ve got it, you know, maybe I have the house, the plane, whatever. I have it but I’m not happy. I thought this was supposed to make me happy, and now here I am at 40 and I’m not happy. Is that something you see a lot?

 Is that just a regular midlife crisis? Like what do you make of something like that?

Adam Mayhew: You just described our ideal client. Yeah.

Rachel Kugel: I know a lot of people like that. A lot of people just send your way. It’s like an existential crisis, right?

Because at the end of the day, if you don’t have meaning, if you don’t have love, if you don’t have those relationships going well in your life. So what if you have the money?

Adam Mayhew: Exactly. Like what are you doing it for? We’ve had people on calls where they’ve said to us, you know, this is on the discovery call that we do and, there’s a client now, so obviously I can’t mention a name, but he says I’m looking out onto my driveway and I dunno why I bought that Ferrari. It’s not bought me any happiness, I just bought it because it’s there.

I find it fascinating that people were chasing all the money and materialistic things and it’s not brought any fulfillment and any happiness. And that’s a lot of the work that we do. I’m sure you’ve had other people on your podcast and you know this, that happiness, it is all internal.

You know, 90% of it is internal. If you master your internal world, then you’ll master your experience of life. Obviously there’s the purpose that comes into it, but no amount of external materialistic things is gonna bring you happiness and fulfillment.

Rachel Kugel: In fact, I think sometimes the opposite in the sense that they hit this existential angst where it’s like all this stuff that was supposed to make them happy isn’t, and I’ve seen people kind of go downhill from that, where the drinking increases, the relationships get harder, the depression rises.

Not only does it not bring happiness. But when they hit a certain point, I think it causes a lot of pain because these were the thing, like they did the right things. You know, they did the college, they did the working, they worked hard, they did like all the stuff you’re supposed to do, and they’re still not happy.

I think it really causes a major problem.I see a lot of clients. Not all of them have alcohol problems per se, but in some respects, they all have problems with alcohol because if you find yourself arrested as a result of alcohol, that’s a problem that we have to think about.

Not saying you’re an alcoholic, but it’s caused a problem. And I think that a lot of times when they find themselves in that situation, it’s a symptom of a lot of other stuff going on. I’m just there to be that bandaid to try to get them outta jail, outta trouble, whatever.

But that doesn’t necessarily fix their life. And sometimes they end up coming back with another one and so on.

Adam Mayhew: And for a lot of people it’s just a habit. They may not necessarily be an addict at all, and like a lot of our clients, they’re not. They’re just like these mid lane drinkers, but it’s become such a habit.

It’s become a standard that they don’t even sometimes know that they’re doing it. They may have a busy day in the office or at work and then they come home. And then quickly see the wife, see the children, put them to bed, and then turn on the tv. They’ve caught up in that habit.

And before you know it, it’s not one glass of wine, it’s the whole bottle. And then the weekend comes round and they see their friend. They’re just stuck in the same pattern.

Rachel Kugel: I was gonna say too, like sometimes alcohol is harder than even someone having a hard drug issue.

Sometimes alcohol is harder because it’s very hard to not be around it. I always joke around in terms of my business that we’re sort of recession proof because my clients are either if things are going well, you’re celebrating. If things are going bad, you’re drowning your sorrows.

It kind of falls into either place especially with businessmen, successful men in that community, alcohol’s a big piece of that, going after work with the guys and getting a drink to unwind, going to a fancy dinner and somebody ordering that expensive bottle of wine.

So it’s like whether things are going well, whether they’re not going well, whether it’s a business meeting, I remember my husband used to say when he drank a lot, he used to be like, this is where deals get done. I have to be at this bar, at this dinner, at this thing.

This is where it happens. Now that he doesn’t really drink. We’ll go to one of these things and afterwards he’ll be like, I can’t believe, I thought people were like, they make no sense, after hour or two and a few drinks, no one’s talking about anything real. They don’t make any sense.

And here I thought this is where the deals were being done. It seemed like that in the moment.

Adam Mayhew: That’s the story he was telling himself. And a lot of people do that you need it to fit in, you need it to do a business deal. It’s a load of nonsense, honestly.

Rachel Kugel: But then people are gonna care. Do you find people lie about, I’m not drinking ’cause I’m taking an antibiotic.

Adam Mayhew: I did that. I lied. Yeah. Or I’m driving tonight.

Rachel Kugel: I mean, I always say that people don’t think about you as much as you think they do.

Adam Mayhew: No, most people are focusing on their own problems.

Rachel Kugel: Right. But in your mind you think, oh, what are they gonna think? And I can’t tell them. And why do you think that’s so, is it tied up in masculinity?

Like what is that about for guys?

Adam Mayhew: I think, I don’t think it’s just for guys, I think it’s females as well. A lot of the time we worry about what other people are thinking. I think it depends how we were raised as children and ’cause that people pleasing or thinking about what people think.

It’s a learned behavior and usually comes from childhood or something. So a lot of the work we do can be that inner child work, understanding what happened there, if there’s any trauma that’s happened.But a lot of the time it’s because they’re not present.

When you worry about what other people think, you can’t really do that because it’s your perception of their perception and that doesn’t exist. So you’re worrying about something that doesn’t exist. ‘Cause you never know, you, you never know what other person is thinking.

You think you know what they’re thinking and you can ask them what they’re thinking, but they could tell you and they could lie. It’s like I see it as wasted energy.

What was the thing that shift you from like, you know, you said when you first started down that path you would lie about the reason you weren’t drinking or whatever.

When did it become something that became part of who you were instead of something where you had to lie about it? I think it was in the early stages, a lot of this was paired with mindfulness and meditation. The reason why I stopped drinking is because I actually started to meditate and practice mindfulness. I’m a mindfulness teacher now, a meditation teacher, and a lot of it was paired with that.

So the purpose of meditation has become aware. I just became more aware in my head of what was going on, the thoughts that were happening in my head, the thoughts that were not serving me. You know, if it was me worrying about someone else, what they’re thinking, I’m thinking, oh no, it is that inner chimp.

It’s the inner voice in my head, whatever you want to call it. That voice in your head was getting the best of me. You’ve probably listened to books like Steve Peterson’s book, the Inner Chimp. The chimp is 10 times more powerful than you are.

That voice is really powerful. And what a lot of the meditation and mindfulness does is helps you to settle that voice in your head and respond to your thoughts in a much healthier way, and become a lot more aware of your thoughts and just let the thought pass. So I think it was paired with that.

Yeah, and that’s when I started to drop the worry and drop the judgments ’cause the thought is just you judging, it’s just you judging yourself or judging another person. But it’s a judgmental thought.

Rachel Kugel: So has there been any bad that’s come from it? I mean, have you had any friends that are like, I’m not gonna talk to you anymore ’cause you’re not drinking.

Adam Mayhew: In complete transparency, I’m seven and a half years alcohol free now. When you make a move like this you’ll find out who your real friends are. Some people will be really supportive, your close friends will pat you on the back.

Some people will give you a little rubbish like, oh, why are you not drinking what you’re doing that for? Usually that’s holding up a mirror to them. A lot of some friends can feel like, because you are not drinking now or you are gonna go out and not drink and they’re drinking, that you are depriving them of their fun because when you’ve met up with them, you’ve always drank.

You see what I mean? So obviously there’s a large psychology piece in this, but yeah. When you make a move like this, you will find out who your friends are. I let go of a lot of drinking buddies. I’ll say that.

Rachel Kugel: So you feel like too, I feel like that sometimes when you are drinking, those people feel like friends and you might say to your wife I can’t be with you ’cause I have to be with these people. They feel like real friendships.

And then sometimes when you stop you realize there wasn’t really a friendship underlying it. The person didn’t necessarily care about you or your family, they were really like a drinking buddy. And that’s okay to have some of that. But like, don’t put too much wait on those people, right?

Because they’re not really necessarily a friend with a capital F that’s gonna be there for life. You know? Might just be a drinking buddy that you could let go of if you wanted to, or you know, like the real cream will sort of rise to the top and the people that won’t, real friends will kind of go.

Adam Mayhew: Yeah. Something that we advocate for is the coffee test. If you’re a guy listening to this now, have a think about your friend’s group. How many friends have you got that you can go to Starbucks at 10 o’clock on a Tuesday and have a conversation about life? Not girls, not football.

Rachel Kugel: I’m talking about a deep conversation about life and how are you, how really are you? Very few guys. A lot of guys have got very few. I feel like women have that. I think that’s part of what happens to men too at that midlife crisis thing is like men put so much on the career and so much of their identity is bound up in being that doctor, that lawyer, that business guy, CEO, whatever it is, and women do that. I mean, a lot of my identity is bound up in being a lawyer, but women also can be like friends, mom, sister.

Like women can sort of bind themselves, their identity is not so fixed. I think men’s identity gets really wrapped up in that. I mean, how do they fix that? What do you do if you’re a guy and you find yourself failing that Starbucks test, what does one do from there?

Adam Mayhew: Start getting curious because maybe your existing friends who you thought were friends, were just drinking buddies. They’re not actually your friends. So it’s about getting curious because when you go alcohol free. You’ll get a lot of time back. There’ll be no time spent hungover. If you’re someone who goes out and has a few drinks on a Saturday night, all of a sudden Sunday mornings, you’ll be waking up at six, seven o’clock and like, Ooh, what do I do now?

Depending on where you’re at, if you have children and things, you’ve got all this time to do things, which is a great thing. You can start channeling and obviously you get more energy. When you remove the alcohol, the transition that happens to your internal health, you sleep better, you get more energy.

You stay focused, you get mental clarity, you make more money, you improve your relationship with yourself. You improve your relationships with other people. You stress less, you get less anxiety. It’s just win-win when you go alcohol free. But also that can be a problem because what you mentioned there is you start to work things out and thinking, actually, how many people have I got in my life to speak?

Rachel Kugel: Right. And you have to deal with those feelings when you feel bummed about it. You can’t go drink.

Adam Mayhew: Exactly. So now all of a sudden the emotions that I’m feeling and the thoughts that I’m feeling, I’m now more aware of them. What do I do with them? Yeah, so I think a huge part of going out goal free, which is what happened to me and what’s happened to the hundreds of people with help with this, is what are you curious about?

What are you really curious about? Is there an old hobby or something you wanted to get into? Have you not gone to the gym for a while or you want to get into a sport again? That can really help because it’s twofold. One, you can take your mind off not drinking and focus on something else, like, running 5K or running 10K and getting into the gym again.

But through that process, you’re gonna meet loads of people. And those people are gonna be more aligned with what you are trying to do and the goals you are trying to achieve. And it’s usually what I’ve found in my own personal and hundreds of people, this is usually something in health.

You make new friends down at the gym, you may even reconnect with people you lost touch with because they’re not drinking as well. You’d be surprised when you talk to people. People go, I’ve not drank for a year. It’s like, oh, great.

Rachel Kugel: Well, it’s become a thing.It’s gotten some momentum around the idea of it. I mean, you have these sober bars now and sober parties and celebrities doing it. So it’s gotten some momentum in the pop culture world.

I wonder if programs like yours don’t help that too, because I know you have one-on-one work and programs like that, but I know you also have retreats and programs where it’s more in a group setting. I imagine finding that group, like finding your people, helping other people through your stories, I imagine those kinds of connections especially for men.

‘Cause men don’t have that. Women are prone to do that whether it’s with friends, college friends or family members, women get together, they talk. Men kind of don’t. So I imagine creating that, like looking for ways to create that, whether it’s at the gym, whether it’s through programs like you guys run, where you can make connections with other men, which is probably uncomfortable for some men, but also transformative.

Adam Mayhew: A hundred percent. Yeah. And that’s what happens on our retreats. You know, when we bring the guys together, it’s the way we’ve been conditioned. I’m sure it’s the same in the States, but here in the UK I’m nearly 40, and a lot of our fathers were brought up in the era of men stiff up and lit.

We don’t talk about our emotions. It’s in us as well. I think that’s part of the problem and we keep hearing online that men just need to talk more. Talking was never the problem. It’s what happens when he spoke. When he spoke, you probably didn’t know how to handle what he said, or they were shut down.

They were ridiculed for what they said. So what we quickly learn as men is when we showed that vulnerability. How dangerous it was. We get penalized for it. So I’m not gonna show that vulnerability again. So what do I do? I suppress my emotions. I don’t talk about how I really feel. I just stay quiet and turn to the drink.

Rachel Kugel: That’s tough. That’s so sad to think about, you know, these men in our lives that we love and care about are not necessarily sharing with us. It just makes it even more important to help if you have a man in your life like this, maybe help them find, you know, Adam or a program.

You know, because you kinda want that for the men you love, like, I want that connection for them. What you’re describing is sad.

Adam Mayhew: It is a societal issue. It’s not about we need to talk more. It’s you need to learn how to listen.

 ‘Cause a lot of the time, especially if it’s family members and friends, we try to fix, I’m sure you’ve probably heard of the drama triangle. Where you’ve got the victim, the rescue, and the persecutor in a social situation. And a lot of the time friends will try and fix, you know, they’ll just say, oh, you’ll be fine, mate.

 If you go to a friend and you’re talking about your problems and you want some help, and they’re saying things like, oh, you’ll be fine. Don’t tell me how to feel. It’s learning to listen. Create that space for the person to talk and offload, and don’t try to fix, ask better questions.

Rachel Kugel: What’s making you think that? You’ve got two men sitting in that room together, both of whom were raised in the way you’re describing, both of whom have the same neurosis around sharing their feelings. It’s like blind leading the blind. They’re supposed to help each other connect.

I mean, again, we’re a program like yours comes into play ’cause you guys facilitate helping these men connect.

Adam Mayhew: Exactly. And a lot of it is coaching, you know, not trying to fix, it’s holding a conversation. What’s making you think that thought? What data do you have that’s true? If they think this about themselves.

Where did you get that information from? Oh, I didn’t. Okay. You know, and then a lot of it is forward movement. What’s one small action we can do today to look after yourself? Maybe something you can do. Can you get outside for a walk? Can you drink some more water? Whatever it is, you know?

Rachel Kugel: Right. Selfcare. Changing that emotion. Let me ask you this. I have a 6-year-old son. You mentioned you have two boys. What can we do to break the cycle? Like, what can we do for those boys? What should I be thinking about to raise a boy that ends up more connected to himself and able to lead a more fulfilling and meaningful life that’s not just defined by achievement and money?

Adam Mayhew: That’s a great question, and I think with children, we tend to parent how we were parent, how our parents, parent does, and again, I think it’s understanding the transactional analysis.

So that’s when you’ve got the drama triangle that I spoke about before. But you’ve got transactional analysis, which is basically parent to child and adult. There’s basically parent state, child, state, and adult state. And a lot of the time we speak to our children in a very parent state, and it’s usually from how our parents taught us.

I know. And I get a bit frustrated. I know I mentioned that I meditate every day and I do, but there’s times when it is, it’s all happening in the house, and I get a bit frustrated. My frustration and anger will come out, not like my dad.

There’s elements of it and I can see it in my head. It’s like, that’s what my dad used to do to me. He would say it in that way, and I don’t beat myself up about it. I just try and learn from it. I think a lot of the time with children, this is gonna sound a bit awful, but I’ve had clients say to me Adam, how do I not mess up my kid? And I say, look, respectfully, you’re gonna mess him up one way or another. You can give him or her all the love. And when he or she grows old and goes out into the real world,

How’s she gonna handle that? So again, you can treat a mean keeping keen again, there’s just no right or wrong way. But all I’d say is when they’re speaking, for example, if your son comes home from school and he said things like, another kid at school said that I was ugly.

These conversations really help because if you reply back ugly, you are not ugly, you are beautiful. That’s a problem.

Rachel Kugel: ‘Cause you didn’t let them feel the thing? I probably do say that. I probably would say that.

Adam Mayhew: I do as well. Because default is default, but it’s learning to step back and go, let them feel it. What makes you think that?

Rachel Kugel: That’s about learning to feel it. And then also move through it. And if you just say as I would, I mean, as I hear you say it, I know I would say to my son, you’re the handsomest boy, you know?

Adam Mayhew: But at the same time I see what you’re saying, which is that then I haven’t let him experience it and come out the other side of it. I’ve just kind of covered it up. Yeah. It’s like when someone, it’s known as the refrigerated gremlin. So again, another scenario, child comes home from school.

Mommy, mommy, daddy, daddy, look at my drawing again. The normal response is, wow, look at this drawing. Aren’t you amazing? Problem. Not good. Obviously for your listeners, you’ve just acknowledged the painting before the child. So you always acknowledge the child first, you know?

So for example, if you said, oh my God, look at this painting. You are amazing. I love you so much. Then that’s telling the child that I need to go and create and do all this stuff to get love and validated. No, no, no, no, no. And again, it’s so hard to do it in the moment, but it’s okay.

Mommy, daddy, look at my drawing. And you look at it and go, let’s put that to one side. Come here darling. I love you so much. Let’s have a look at this painting. Did you do this all by yourself?

Rachel Kugel: That’s really interesting.

Adam Mayhew: That’s a massive difference. My son’s only three years old and I’m teaching this every day. There’s gonna be a moment when he does, I reckon next year he’s gonna come back from school and go, daddy, daddy, the what I made. And hopefully I’m gonna get it right in that moment.

Rachel Kugel: I’m gonna try, my kids will get off the bus in a few hours and I’m gonna try because I definitely have done it the other way. Well-meaning, you know, but I’ve definitely done it the other way. And you’re right, that just kind of connect. It makes their little neurological connection be that it’s the achievement.

The work like it’s not that they’re just worthy for being them, but that they have to do something, achieve something, or be something more in order to get that love, which isn’t really what you mean, but it’s the pathway that gets created. I’d also add that I’m sure blowing smoke up your butt for a second is to say that, I imagine it’s also about sort of, I don’t know, do they have that, is that a saying in the UK?I think it’s also modeling, right? I think it’s also the fact that even just having nothing to do with your interaction with your kid, just the way you’re living your life.

The things you’re doing day to day as the dad, as the man in his life, just modeling that itself will hopefully instill it, You’re just being that person. You’re doing the things, you’re feeling the emotions. You’re not needing to drink and go out till two in the morning. You know, you’re kind of living it.

So I imagine again that for a guy doing this kind of work that you guys are talking about isn’t just about having a great life, but it’s also about that legacy.

Adam Mayhew: And you know, I’m not perfect. I mean, I’m nearly four years into being a parent.

I’m learning so much about it. A great book which I’ll recommend is The Daily Dad by Ryan Holiday. Yeah. ‘Cause I read it every day, so I’ll just put it to the camera. The Daily Dad. Fantastic. I recommend that to all dads you read a quote on one page, and you’ve got five minutes in the morning to read it and it just sets the tone.

Rachel Kugel: It’s like a daily. Literally live with it. That’s great. I’m gonna get that for my husband. ‘Cause at the end of the day, that’s really the most important job you’re gonna do, is not the one that made you the most money. Right? I mean, you never see, you go to a graveyard.

You never see on tombstones. Here lies Joe, he was the best lawyer in New Jersey. You never see here lies Ed. He made $300 million in his lifetime. Every single tombstone says, father, husband, brother.

That’s what it says. And there’s a reason for that. Or else we’d be putting it on everybody’s tombstone. Like, you know. Here lives Charlie. He made a million dollars a year. Like no one loved him. He wasn’t nice to anyone, but he made a million dollars a year.

Adam Mayhew: I think the biggest distraction when it comes to parenting is this thing. So, yeah, it’s not a phone, it’s a block of anxiety. A lot of people use their phone and even I’m still guilty of it. I found myself doing it the other night.

It’s not being present at the dinner table. When we are there, we should be playing with our children and our phone. You can feel your phone vibrating in your pocket and you just have a little look and then all of a sudden you sat on your phone replying back to an email or doing something.

A great thing that you can do is before you walk into the house, when you come home from work, or come back from your business, whatever it is, when you’re on the driveway before you go into the house. Go onto your phone, reply back to any emails in your car at that moment, you might take five or 10 minutes.

 Put this on your to-do list. Respond back to that WhatsApp. Then put it on airplane mode. Then walk into your house, leave it in your bag or your laptop bag, and just leave it to the side, and then spend that next night minutes with your children and with family, and it is such a game changer.

Rachel Kugel: For sure. I just thought this thing is called the brick. Have you seen this thing? It’s like a little, you have one? I have it right over here. I had read an article about it and it seems so silly. Basically you tap it, you set certain things that’ll ’cause for example, my mother, I always feel like I want my moms to be able to call me if something, God forbid.

I’m always hesitant to fully shut off my phone. Even I try to do like a Shabbat or turn it off on Friday night and you know, but I get nervous ’cause there’s people in my life that might have to reach me like my mom. So this brick thing, it just, you put your phone up to it and it automatically shuts down.

Just maybe the social media, maybe the work, email, those few things. And then you still can have it sitting there, but it stops you from doing those distracting social media things and I’ve found that I’m playing with it.Even with work sometimes if I need to focus on writing emotion, like just to tap that and, you know, gives you 15 minutes or it gives you a whole day.

And also if I put it in the other room, you have to get up.

Adam Mayhew: Yeah. It creates that resistance. It’s so good. I’ve been using it about two weeks now, and it is really worked. I agree. I’m totally that for people as well. I fully agree with that.

Rachel Kugel: I feel like we talked about a lot of this to some extent. I have these questions for you about men that seem to have it all, like, the status, the money, relationships, and they’re still numbing themselves out. What do you think is missing? But I think we’re really talking about that, right?

What’s missing is these deeper connections to who they are and what really matters, right?

Adam Mayhew: Yeah. Deeper connections, their purpose, their identity, their meaning. And I think that’s a massive part. It’s becoming that superior man and what that looks like, If you’re still drinking alcohol, you’re not ever gonna feel it.

And a lot of this is creating peace in your mind. Inner peace, not judging yourself, removing the judgment. The thoughts are always gonna be there. You get to decide what the thoughts mean. Are you taking the right action? So a lot of the work is doing work in the values area, what you value in life.

Are you living outwardly the actions to those values? If not, you get what’s known as cognitive dissonance. This is where the actions and behaviors you’re doing don’t match your beliefs and values, and you get frustration, tension. You beat yourself up in your head. So yeah, a lot of it, a lot of the work is an identity.

It’s a massive identity shift and I think guys that drink, it’s masking who you really are. It really is. You know, if you’re someone who’s drinking quite frequently. You are wearing a mask a lot of the time, when you remove the alcohol, that mask is gonna come off. You’re gonna show vulnerability.

Rachel Kugel: You’re gonna start to really think about who you are, but not who you want to be. Because that’s a lot of the work that we do. Who are you becoming? You know? I was gonna ask you, that brings me to that next thing I know one of the taglines that you guys talk about is helping guys to build a life that they don’t want to escape from.

How does a guy figure out what that life actually looks like? How do you guys help them actually uncover that?

Adam Mayhew: So, literally by asking that question, how do you honestly wanna spend each day? You wake up. What do you want to do? I mean, we get into the thick of it and obviously it’s different for everyone else.

What legacy do you wanna leave behind? Where do you honestly wanna spend your time, money, and energy? ‘Cause that’s really all we get and all we get in life is time and choices. The key is to be wise with both. So it’s usually a lot of questions.

There’s sort of frameworks that we use. Like I’m successful when, so I’m successful when is quite a good one. ‘Cause when do you feel amazing? I’m successful when I don’t drink. I’m successful when I drink. Three liters of water a day. I’m successful when I eat healthily.

I’m successful when I get outside for a walk. I’m successful when I meditate regularly. Things like that, you know? So it’s doing a lot of that work and getting it out of here and onto paper because a lot of the time we think we know what we want.

Rachel Kugel: Well, I was gonna say, it sounds like also a lot of guys are living lives that they don’t really want.

 Maybe they thought they were gonna want it, but now that they’re in it. It sounds like you’re saying they’re spending their days, they’re doing things that, you know, they’re actually looking at it going like, I don’t really wanna spend my day in the way I’m spending my day. Or things that I’m saying are important to me or not.

That it’s creating that cog, I’m not actually living in a way that shows that those things are important to me. And it’s kind of amazing how many people, if you find yourself in a tough spot, like sometimes, you know, if you find yourself in criminal trouble in a DUI or something like that, that’s not always a terrible thing.

God willing, if someone doesn’t get hurt, you should consider yourself lucky because a lot of people don’t get that wake up call most people just meander toward their lives and relationships. They have a wife and they just tolerate each other.

They don’t have these great loves and these great lives. And so if you get the opportunity, maybe even through something bad to whether it’s a marital issue that causes chaos or a criminal issue to reexamine and rebuild, you could build something way better than most people ever get.

Adam Mayhew: I feel like most people just kind of float. Every day is an opportunity to reinvent yourself, you know? A lot of people are just mediocre. They just live an average life. Marriage is, that’s a lot of the guys that come to us. Marriage is okay.

 But the problem with that is when things are just okay. It’s not quite shit enough to make a change. It’s like seven out 10. It’s just, yeah, it’s all right. Those are just sort of getting by.

But there is another level. That’s why the wheel of Life comes into it. When you score all the areas of life out of 10, there’s gonna be something in that moment, which is low. It might be your relationships, it might be your job, it might be your business, it might be your health.

It may be a lacking adventure in your life. What is it? And it’s only through the questioning. When you sit with a coach and go through it. I think a lot of people aren’t aware. They don’t know why they feel unhappy or unfulfilled. That’s where coaching can help because we’re gonna get clarity on exactly where it is, and then get a plan together.

Some form of action to start moving forward.

Rachel Kugel: I think it’s awesome. And a big part of what I tell people I cross paths with is, you know, ’cause people beat themselves up about finding themselves in a dark spot. And I’m sure, again, in my work, that means usually criminal trouble of some sort, but it could also mean an affair.

Chaos within a marriage. Kids being mad at you and not talking to you. It can mean a job loss, right? Whatever it is. And I really try to tell people, and I can say this even from my own life and marriage, that sometimes it’s those things that seem the worst, that end up being the catalyst for the best.

And you really do look back and say, if that thing hadn’t happened. I would’ve just had this half-ass existence, but because that horrible thing happened, I get the chance at a really great marriage, at a really incredible life, you know, at building an even better business.

It’s like that event made you who you are now. Yeah, and, people can go full victim and like, you know, in 10 minutes, like zero to victims. In 60 seconds or less and make that their identity now. Oh, woe was me. I’m getting a divorce. Woe was me. I did this bad thing and now everyone hates me.

Adam Mayhew: Whatever it is. Right? And guys and women can just go zero to victim. I hate that because it serves no one. You’re definitely not put on this earth to be somebody’s victim. The victim mindset, the victim state, is the worst that you can get into.

And, you can do it in your thinking in any moment, but when you stay there, it’s awful. That’s why there’s a flip to that drama triangle. ‘Cause the victim becomes the creator. Let’s start creating. But like with what I said earlier, what are you curious about? What’s one thing you can do for you today?

Yes, the divorce is hard, but guess what, you’ve got a whole other venture to go on here once the divorce done, you know?

Rachel Kugel: Right. And, and you may find yourself in a situation, whether through groups like yours or whatever, where you end up, the idea is this mess that happened to you could end up becoming your message where you can help someone else going through it, which is really the story of your life.

You know, something that was difficult for you and turned it into a force for good, a force for change, for men all over the world, as well as a super amazing, awesome business that builds you a great life and legacy. So, the bad thing doesn’t have to be.

You’ve got a choice at any moment to either be a victim or to turn it around and turn it into something good. But you have to own it. You can’t be that while still saying, oh, I’m not drinking ’cause I’m taking antibiotics. It has to be the identity to some extent, don’t you think?

Adam Mayhew: I think it does. And your life will only change if you change. No one’s coming to save you. It has to be you. People say to me, Adam, you changed my life. I didn’t, I just helped lead you. And I hold you account to what you said you were gonna do, but ultimately you made the change.

Not me. You did it. And I say that to my coaches, thanks so much. And it’s like, well, you did it. I know, but through the coaching you helped me to get the belief to actually make the move and do it.

Rachel Kugel: It’s an incredible place to hear that from clients. And I think it also makes the point, you’re saying you have coaches, so even the coach gets coached. I agree. I always have as well. My coach, he has a coach and my business mentor, he has coach. That’s how it works. That’s how it works. Every coach has a coach, but no one ever made it to greatness on their own. Life is hard. It ain’t easy. It’s not for the faint of heart, it’s not for sissies. It’s tough, you know, shit happens and it ain’t easy. And there’s nothing wrong with saying you need help. If you’re lucky enough to get a mentor that has been there, that’s the thing. Look for someone, that’s kind of where you wanna be.

So if you’re looking to someone like Adam and you’re saying, gosh, you know, he looks great. He looks healthy, he is mentally healthy, he’s got a nice family, he’s built a nice business. If you can look to that and say, there’s a piece of that I want for myself and for my life, then that’s a good sign that that person is a coach for you.

What would you recommend as far as how do you know if someone’s a good fit for you?

Adam Mayhew: That’s a great question. For a coach for me, it’s usually exactly what you just said. They’ve got something that I haven’t got and I want it. I had this with one of my clients a couple of years ago.

He was very successful, multiple millions. When he signed up, I was thinking, how can I help this guy? This is like two or three years ago. Again, a limiting belief that I had. And when he asked me a question, he went, Adam, how’d you do it? I was like, how do I do what? He goes, how do you be alcohol free?

 I’m like, ah, that’s what he wants. He wants to know how to operate and communicate and be alcohol free.

Rachel Kugel: How do you do it? Because a lot of his was around his social life and meeting up with other guys and stuff. It’s like, okay, I can help you. That’s what he wants. You guys are a good find. I personally think this is just my opinion for what it’s worth. I think AA is very good. For people that identify as an alcoholic or having real problems, it’s the only thing I’ve seen really work long term Even people that can afford to go to inpatient rehabs have to leave and you have to go back to your life when you’re, so I feel like AA is one of the only things that really works.

What’s interesting about what you guys do in your work is I get a lot of resistance to AA from people, either because they feel like it’s labeling them as an alcoholic and they don’t necessarily identify with that label or because maybe there’s religious components that they don’t necessarily feel comfortable with, or being in a group with people of all types maybe that aren’t as high achieving

It could be a homeless guy on the street in the AA meeting with you. But for whatever reason, especially with high achieving guys, I feel a lot of resistance. They’ll say, I’m not like that.

I’m not that person. I think your program fills a void for people because it has some of the elements of that community, giving back, helping someone else that AA kind of has. But without some of the things that stop people.

What’s your take on AA or where you guys fit into that spectrum?

Adam Mayhew: Yeah, I agree I’ve heard great things about AA, and I’ve heard negative things as well, and some people have come to us ’cause AA wasn’t quite for them with all the things you mentioned there.

I agree. I think it’s the environment. The reason why a lot of our programs work is that community element. It is other business owners. It is other high performers. So straight away it’s like, oh, okay. They get it. Some people come to us and they’re already alcohol free. They want to improve other areas of their life.

They stopped drinking a year ago. But they want to be surrounded by other high performers or other people that aren’t drinking, so they come into our community as well. I think like with anything, you’ve gotta try it. You know? If it is AA, go give it a go.

Rachel Kugel: You know, if it’s another program, go get it. But I’d say give your all to it. Don’t just go in half-hearted and the thing with our programs you’ve got to be really ready to change. You’ve got to be so ready. It sounds like yours does some extra. I do wanna hear that. It sounds like yours does extra stuff in the sense like, I could be in AA and your program, like I could go to AA locally on a daily basis just ’cause I need that, but also do that.I was gonna say, but also that what AA doesn’t give me, is that masterminding piece with other people that are also high achieving.

There’s other elements to this and creating a good life. You could be sober physically and not sober spiritually or And so maybe that’s also where having a group like yours and, ’cause you’re working on all the pieces of someone’s life, not just sobriety.

Adam Mayhew: Like that’s one piece. But it’s also like creating that life that you don’t wanna escape from, which is a whole other set of. Yeah, exactly. So it’s everything really. That whole self-mastery piece, the alignment piece that comes into it, improving your relationships.

Do you wanna become a better communicator? Do you wanna talk the communication, the relationship with yourself, but then the relationship with other people? Every client’s different when they come in as to what they wanna do. And it’s not always about the alcohol.

Some people just want refining. They want to tweak things and get better habits and install these better habits. Some people just want accountability to make the changes in their life. And our client lifecycle is quite high in terms of. People, they stay with us for 18 months, two years. Because they just keep investing. They may come to our retreat. They may go, oh, actually, you know what I need to do a little bit more work on nutrition. So they start working with our nutritional therapist.

Rachel Kugel: What’s the best, like, if people wanna get started with you, I know you have the alcohol reset as a program. What’s the sort of entry point that you recommend?

Adam Mayhew: Yeah, we basically mainly have like two offers. So we’ve got membership offer, which is monthly membership. It’s six months commitment and you get access to the community, access to our courses and resources.

And you also get access to a coach for one coaching call a month, or you’ve got our transformational programs. The transformational programs are very tailored to the individual. So really meeting the individual where they’re at. That will bring in the whole elements that I spoke about, the sobriety, the alignment, the self mastery, the blood test, the DNA tests, the direct access to myself and my business partner.

It’s almost like you’ve got a coach in your pocket. So yeah, it’s not like therapy or coaching where we’re looking at the clock going, right, you’re finished now.

We’re not gonna speak for another two weeks. You’ve got direct access to us. So a lot of our coaching can be on the spot as well with our coaching team. I mean, everyone’s beck and call obviously, but if you’re having a challenging moment we are available on WhatsApp.

Rachel Kugel: We might not be available at two o’clock in the morning, you know. We will respond. And it may just be a quick phone call. It may just be a WhatsApp voice message. It just depends at that moment. That’s pretty cool. How do people find out more about you? And I’m gonna link it also in the comments, et cetera, so I will link your site, but just so it’s on the recording, how will people find you?

Adam Mayhew: Yeah, thank you very much. So best to find me on LinkedIn. That’s why I’m most active. So I’m there, Adam Mayhew. If you search Adam Mayhew you’ll probably see me. And also on Instagram, I’m on there as well as adammayhew_agame.

And you can visit our website www.agameconsultancy.com.

Rachel Kugel: Awesome. And before I let you go, can you give us one story of a single really powerful breakthrough that you’ve witnessed recently that maybe you said to yourself like, this is why I do this work.

No names or anything like that. A really powerful breakthrough you’ve seen that’s like, this is why I’m doing this.

Adam Mayhew: Oh, that’s a great question. It’s gonna be a realization with all of our clients, including myself, hundreds of people that we’ve coached, and it’s the realization that you are enough just as you are. That’s it. Honestly. ‘Cause that’s why a lot of people want change in their life or the reason why they’re not feeling good is because they don’t feel good enough.

Rachel Kugel: Whatever that’s in. So simple. And it’s the realization, the epiphany moment that actually you are enough, just as you are right now, everything’s gonna be okay. Well, thank you. On that note, thank you for that and Adam, you have been more than enough. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Adam Mayhew: You’re welcome. Thank you.