Protecting Your Future: Luis Leal on Insurance Impacts of DUI Convictions

Rachel Kugel: Good morning everyone. This is Rachel Defends You, and I am joined today with the incredible Luis Leal. He is a true San Antonio original, an eighth generation native, a proud father and entrepreneur, and a self-proclaimed insurance nerd. He’s also a drummer, a Red Sox loyalist, which I’ll forgive you for ’cause he knows I can do it and die-hard Spurs fan.

Luis Leal: I had to put that in there just ’cause I knew we were doing this in New York.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah, I’m right across from Yankee Stadium. But anyways, Luis is gonna tell us more about his life and his background, but just suffice it to say that he didn’t plan or set out to begin working in insurance.

But he’s had this great love story where he stumbled into it and never looked back. He’s become an insurance professional and since 2008 he’s been building a career. He helps families, businesses, and he’s gonna help us today understand more about navigating the complex world of insurance, property and casualty.

I’m hoping to ask him a lot of specific questions that I know my people are dying to understand about what happens when you get a DUI, get in some kind of car trouble, reckless driving, you get some criminal trouble on your back. How to deal with insurance? How to know what’s gonna happen?

Can you give us a little bit about your background and you were telling me before we hit record, you have an illustrious and long career in insurance.

I would love everyone to hear about that.

Luis Leal: Yeah. I’ve been excited about insurance since 2008. An insurance agent.

Rachel Kugel: That’s good tagline.

Luis Leal: Yeah. Quick math, 17 years total in insurance. 15 years as an agency owner. We primarily focus on property and casualty insurance.

So that is like your auto, your home, your business and commercial insurance. We don’t do any life insurance disability, so we’re really specialists. We’re really focused on the property and casualty side, and we know that realm really well. We’re located in San Antonio.

I’m born and raised in San Antonio. I have loved it here my entire life. I’m excited anytime somebody wants to come and visit San Antonio, not necessarily to take ’em to the Alamo, that’s a little hidden secret. But yeah, anything else about the Alamo City, I’m absolutely in love with.

I’m eighth generation San Antonian. Fourth generation entrepreneur. My great-grandfather started a grocery store in a little town outside of San Antonio. My grandfather had four businesses. I have two uncles who own businesses. One of ’em is an insurance agent, so I try not to promote his business too much.

 

Rachel Kugel: It’s really special and I think also we were talking about how so much of the insurance business is about connections and networking.Just want people to know that while you might be in Texas, if there’s anything where you have an insurance need and it’s not in Texas, they can hit me up.

They can hit you up and we’ll try to find them. I always say I practice in New York and New Jersey. But if I can’t help you, I will use my networking connections to find you the person that can. And I think, Luis, you feel the same?

Luis Leal: Yeah, absolutely. We’re licensed in multiple states, so we do offer some insurance products outside of Texas, but if you have listeners who are in a state that we’re not in, we can absolutely connect them to some of the best insurance agents across the country.

Rachel Kugel: And you own your own agency at this point.

Luis Leal: Yeah,I’m a partner at my insurance group. I have three business partners. And I happen to at the moment be focused on commercial insurance. I work with a lot of small businesses, contractors, that kind of thing.

But like I said, I’ve been doing property and casualty for 17 years now, so I got a ton of experience when it comes to auto and home insurance.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah. Well, that’s why I wanted to pick your brain because, as you know, I’m a criminal defense attorney focused on driving related cases.

So that means generally DWI, DUI, refusals, reckless driving, et cetera, and all the things where people can get in trouble in their car. It tends to be placed in which I specialize for better or for worse. And I found myself falling into that similar to how you fell into insurance.

That’s how life works, but I get a lot of questions from clients about how they will be impacted after dealing with one of these cases. I can get them through it with minimal impact to their life typically. But there are things that we don’t have control over here on the criminal defense side.

There are things in which I don’t even know how to advise them because insurance is a private company. They can do whatever they want. So I’m super excited to talk to you today and hopefully ask you some questions and pick your brain.

So my first question is, what will happen to someone from an insurance standpoint after they get a DWI? Let’s say you get popped for driving while intoxicated, how quick do they find out? What should an individual expect?

Luis Leal: Great question to start with. I will tell you right up front, the insurance company is every term. So your auto insurance policy is typically gonna be a six month term. Sometimes, carriers will offer you an annual term. Typically at renewal time is when you’re gonna see an impact, if there is a conviction.

So that’s really important.

Rachel Kugel: So getting arrested is not gonna do it.

Luis Leal: Yeah, just getting arrested is not going to raise any red flags. It’s not going to do any harm to your driving history. When it impacts your driving history is when there’s a conviction on your driving record.

It won’t usually impact your insurance rates until the renewal after your conviction.

Rachel Kugel: So meaning it’s not gonna have some midterm impact. Generally speaking, it’s not gonna be impactful until that renewal, whether that’s six months, one year or whatever.

Luis Leal: Correct.

So let’s say you get arrested on a Friday for allegedly driving drunk. You’re not gonna wake up on Saturday morning and immediately see an impact on your insurance premium. That’s just not how it works.

Rachel Kugel: Well, that’s good. I mean, at least it gives you the time to plan and sort of fight out the case with your attorney.

This is one I’ve always wondered myself, is there a difference between a DWI and a refusal? So refusal would be refusing to submit to a chemical test. Is that any better than a DWI or is that can have the same impact for insurance purposes as a DUI?

Luis Leal: The refusal is not actually a moving violation.

So it shouldn’t at least impact your insurance rates.

Rachel Kugel: That’s a reason to consider maybe a correct as an option sometimes instead of a DUI.

Luis Leal: Correct. Typically, what insurance companies are looking for are anything that is gonna, for instance, if you’re obstructing a highway or roadway. If you are convicted of DWI or DUI, reckless driving, speeding, illegal lane change. Those things are definitely gonna have an impact on your rates.

But simply refusing to take a breathalyzer is not a moving violation, so it shouldn’t affect your insurance rates.

Rachel Kugel: I have had people that said to me that the refusal ended up affecting them. However, in those instances, it wasn’t their only one.

They had a DUI and then a refusal, or they had two refusals. There was a history. So at least anecdotally, they’ll probably see it and if it’s maybe just a one-off refusal, it’s not gonnatake action. But if it’s within a larger picture, it might cause it, it’s not automatic, in other words.

Luis Leal: Yeah. So one thing that you have to consider is that the insurance company typically offers a ton of discounts, right? A lot of those discounts include things like good driving history, no claims or claims free discount. And so anytime there’s a change to your driving record, that could impact the discounts that you are qualifying for.

So while the violation itself might not impact your rate, you might lose a discount, which will have an impact on your insurance premiums.

Rachel Kugel: So it might’ve been that the reason they were feeling the impact was different than I was understanding it at the moment.

That’s interesting. Do you know anything about how long they can hold it against you?

I had heard three years. I had heard ten years.

Luis Leal: It is gonna vary carrier to carrier. So each company will rate differently. Some carriers will rate three years, some carriers will rate five years.

I’ve seen, especially here in Texas, some carriers rate seven years for a violation. And unfortunately it’s based on date of conviction, not the date of the incident. So even though your case dragged on for a year, for instance, that conviction happened a year later, that’s when the clock starts.

Rachel Kugel: Interesting. And do you know anything about how they make a determination about the worst of the worst if someone gets canceled? Like, what makes them determine whether, okay, I’m gonna raise your rate versus I’m gonna cancel you.

Luis Leal: Yeah, I mean, there’s usually more to it than just the one violation.

I mean, the insurance industry is very, very heavily rated by state governments, and so an insurance company can’t just cancel you for one violation. Typically, there’s a history there, right?

Rachel Kugel: So it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Luis Leal: Exactly. Typically there’s gotta be a justifiable reason for an insurance company to make a change like that. It might be multiple violations. It might be a situation where maybe a customer has multiple claims and the violation, the type of damage that’s paid out, whether that’s property damage, whether that’s bodily injury, all of those things kind of impact your rates, how much is paid out.

So there’s a bunch of different factors. It’s not just one factor that will make a determination on whether an insurance company’s gonna cancel your policy or not.

Rachel Kugel: You obviously have this incredible business where you work directly with consumers or in your case right now businesses, but over the years consumers directly.

I think that’s a real benefit to people, right? Because like for a lot of years I had insurance through a company that shall remain nameless, but I didn’t have an individual that I spoke with. And I’ve switched actually recently because of issues with my rates, mostly ’cause of my husband, not me.

You can’t drop him off your insurance. I found that out the hard way. Anyways, my point is to say that when I made the switch, I went with a company more like yours, where I have a person.

I actually have an insurance agent, and I imagine there’s some benefits to that, even in terms of advising you. Clients will ask me, for example, should I notify the insurance company? And my feeling is so legally you have no obligation to notify the insurance company. That said, they typically find out, when they’re reassessing rates and they pull somebody’s driver’s history, if you’re working with a company like yours where you have an agent.

Is there any benefit? Should you call your agent? Should you tell them what happened? Like,is there something that an agent can do to advise or be a friend to you in that moment?

Luis Leal: I think that’s the entire relationship that an insurance agent has with their customer.

I will tell you our agency, we are advocates for our clients. We become an advocate for our client once the policy is issued in our office.And so anytime there’s a claim issue, policy question, billing issue, you name it, we want to be the first point of contact for the customer.

We can certainly help them navigate the situation. You gotta remember too, that insurance agents we’re consumers just like our clients are. First and foremost, right? So we can certainly empathize with a client. Also, we’re local. So we can see the impact.

We feel the impact economically. We feel the impact of insurance rates going up across the board. And so we can help clients navigate any type of situation that comes up with regards to their insurance. We want to be that first phone call that a customer makes anytime they have a question about insurance or navigating that process.

Rachel Kugel: It’s all about the relationships, right? And like absolutely discovered too, it’s really invaluable to have that relationship because even like, unrelated to DWIs, I was thinking about getting a new car and calling up the insurance agent, like what do you think about this one versus that one?

Having that individual relationship is huge. And then you shouldn’t be embarrassed because people realize this kind of stuff affects everybody. The first reason I’m in this business is because it affects nice, normal, regular people.

I think that people shouldn’t be afraid to call their lawyer, their insurance agent to develop. I’m always about making a team.

I’ve always thought about it as attorney, maybe a counselor or therapist if you need one. Maybe you might need different kinds of attorneys depending on what’s going on in your life. But this has really pointed out that if you’re lucky enough to have an insurance agent, and if you’re not, you should get one.

That can really be part of your team and it’s a team that you know. Whether it’s dealing with a criminal case or even just people get tickets and they get like 10 tickets in a row or accidents, like these things happen. So having that insurance agent, I think that relationship could be really huge.

Luis Leal: Yeah. And a couple things that I’ll mention that I think I speak for the majority of insurance agents out there is that we are not adversarial to our clients at all.

Rachel Kugel: People realize that I think.

Luis Leal: Yeah. I think there’s a stigma that comes with being an insurance agent.

Sometimes we get looked at like we get equated to sleazy car salesman. Like, we’re just trying to sell a policy. And the unfortunate thing about that is we are on a mission. My agency has been on a mission to change that stigma with our clients.

And so that’s why we have outreach to our clients on a regular basis. Like, Hey, we’re advocating for you. We want to help you out.We try to educate our clients. I think it’s important to understand too, that insurance agents work on behalf of the insurance company.

We don’t work for the insurance company. We work for our clients. We want the best for them. We want to help them out.

Rachel Kugel: Your interests are aligned, right? You wanna keep that customer as long as possible, so you don’t want to get dropped.

You don’t want ’em to, you know that hurts your business as well.

Luis Leal: And there’s different kinds of insurance agents.So there are what are called captive agents. Agents that essentially can only sell one company’s product. and then you have independent insurance agents who represent multiple carriers and usually have multiple options to place customers with.

And so if a situation works out where a carrier is dropping a customer, typically an independent insurance agent is going to have other options available for that customer.

Rachel Kugel: There’s like high risk insurance companies. So is your company captive or is your company do?

Luis Leal: No, we are an independent insurance agent.

We have probably 20 different carriers that we represent.The other thing I’ll mention very briefly is if a customer calls an insurance company direct to ask a question about a claim, a potential moving violation, et cetera, et cetera, I guarantee you that will open up some kind of file with the insurance company.

That doesn’t happen when you call your insurance agent. If you call your insurance agent first, we can be that first line of defense for you to say, yeah, this justifies calling the insurance company. Let’s go ahead and move forward with that.

Rachel Kugel: That’s interesting. It’s similar to how I feel as somebody’s advocate on the legal side.

As a lawyer, I’m always telling people like what you say is evidence. If you say something that potentially could be used against you, but what I say as your advocate is not evidence against you, it’s argument. So I have a lot more leeway to float things or ask questions or even sometimes call on a client’s behalf with professional licenses or other kind of collateral things.

I can call and say I have a client who I don’t have to use you no matter. And I’m sure similarly. You can do that as well and say, Hey, I have a client who has this issue, and not raise that red flag. But that’s a really good tip. I hope that’s something that sticks.

I will definitely be giving people that tip. What about accidents? It’s unfortunate when it happens, but once in a while I get a DWI case that involved an accident. And those are always the hardest emotionally. These are tough cases to deal with.

God willing, they’re just property if we’re lucky. But all kinds of things can happen out there. And I get a lot of questions. This is actually where a lot of times the rubber meets the road in terms of having that lawyer. People will call me and say, the insurance company’s calling me.

They’re asking me questions about the accident. I still have a pending criminal case going on and I don’t know how to answer it, and I’ll tell you what I say from a lawyer standpoint, and then you tell me from the insurance standpoint. My general experience is insurance will cover most of the time, well, I think they technically could not cover.

I think most insurance contracts have a provision that says if you are convicted of DWI, we could choose not to cover. That said, I’ve been doing this close to 20 years, and I can count on one hand the amount of times they haven’t covered. I think just because maybe from a litigation standpoint, it’s easier to cover most of the time.

So first of all, most of the time they cover even though they could not. Secondly, you have an obligation to work with your insurance company if you want them to cover. So if you want ’em to cover, you gotta tell them, at least from your perspective, what happened in that accident. So I tell clients, I think you should call and answer questions about the facts of the accident.

Who was where? Who was located in this direction? Where the impacts were? Whatever the factual pieces. If you start getting questions about, did you drink anything or something of that nature, I feel like that’s where your interests are no longer aligned, potentially.

And then I would tell a client, give them my phone number and tell ’em my attorney has instructed me to give you this card. This is my lawyer. Shall I answer any questions that you have concerning that? That’s how I advise people. Am I doing the right thing? Can you add anything?

What do you think?

Luis Leal: Yeah, so let’s take a step back for a second. So you mentioned, claims that potentially haven’t paid out. I can say with almost full certainty that the reason the insurance company chose not to pay in that instance was because the insured failed to communicate with the insurance company.

Rachel Kugel: That’s why communication’s important.

Luis Leal: Yeah. you have a contractual obligation as a policy holder to work with your insurance company, because otherwise they won’t be able to defend you in the event of a claim. A lawsuit against you. So, I can say with almost absolute certainty that in those cases that you’re referring to where the companies chose not to pay out was because the insured failed to complete their obligation as an insured on the policy.

Now in reference to the questions that you were talking about in a claim situation, yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. Uninsured should be able to call the insurance company and go over the facts of the specific claim. If there are outlier questions that the insured doesn’t feel comfortable with, have them refer back to their attorney, someone like you who can discuss any matters outside of what happened in, outside of the facts of loss. To help guide them, your client in this instance, in terms of helping navigate that particular situation.

Exactly what you said, I think is the perfect way to handle that situation. Have a customer call their insurance adjuster to go over the facts of loss. I typically recommend that a customer write out their statement because they’re going to get asked multiple times the same question in a different way or by multiple people.

There may be one claims adjuster that’s assigned to it to handle bodily injury coverage. There may be another adjuster that’s handling the property damage side of it, and so they’re gonna be asked the same questions by multiple people.

And if anything is off in those statements, it could give the insurance company a reason to deny a claim. So it’s always good to write out a statement and make sure that your answers are consistent each time you’re being asked those questions.

Rachel Kugel: It’s interesting. I guess I would think of it a little differently in terms of writing out a statement, if they’ve got a pending criminal case, you know, could be discoverable.

So not to get in the weeds on the law part, but definitely talk to your attorney about whether, if they’re asking you to write out a statement. I’m not necessarily a hundred percent against it, but I think that’s a moment where that team effort comes in.

Let me talk to my lawyer. ‘Cause procedurally where this case is, where we think this is headed. Because if I thought it might be in a trial posture and someone might have to testify, you know, obviously something written could be discoverable, you could have to turn it over.

So I’m just thinking, like a lawyer here.

Luis Leal: That makes sense.

Rachel Kugel: That might be a moment where you’d wanna get that attorney involved and say, should I. And there’s ways around it too, where you can maybe do bullet points or you could maybe have the lawyer draft as work product bullet points that you could use.

There’s ways to consider it, but that’s where that team approach becomes so important because you need to get the full picture. So when somebody gets a DUI or some serious traffic infraction, that’s potentially limiting.

Are you familiar with the SR-22 and all that? Could you speak to that a little bit?

Luis Leal: So the SR-22 typically refers to a filing with the state that you’re in,that the insurance company will do on your behalf. So as a driver confirming or verifying that you have insurance coverage that meets the minimum requirement to be driving in the state you’re in. Typically insurance companies charge a nominal fee for it. It’s an administrative fee, if you will allow the insurance company to file that with the state because they have to do it at every renewal.

And so it’s just a way for the DMV or whatever entity is enforcing driver’s licenses to know that a person does have the minimum required insurance to be driving in that state.

Rachel Kugel: So it does also create a moment where we were talking about notifying or not.

I mean, it does create that moment where if there was any chance insurance wasn’t gonna find out. They’re definitely finding out because now you’ve gotta get that.

Luis Leal: Yeah, I mean, it’s an assumption that an insurance company is gonna make, you know,why does someone need to have an SR-22?

It doesn’t have to be disclosed. You can call your insurance agent and say, Hey, I need an SR-22. The insurance agent is gonna want to know why, so they can help you prepare for that. But it’s really not gonna have an impact on your insurance premiums other than charging that fee to the insurance company to help file that notice to the state.

Rachel Kugel: I’ve heard of a strategy and I think it’s probably BS, but I’ll take your temperature on it anyway. I’ve heard of a strategy where people will get outside insurance for the SR-22.

Luis Leal: Yeah, I mean we have done that before. Because there’s some carriers that don’t offer it.

Rachel Kugel: I think people do it ’cause they think it’s somehow hiding the ball.

Luis Leal: No.You gotta remember that insurance companies talk to each other, whether consumers realize that or not. Insurance companies talk to each other and they’re gonna get hip to it really quickly.

I don’t recommend that as a first.

Rachel Kugel: You have to do it if they don’t offer it, but it’s not gonna get you anything special. I think people think it’s this, like, you’re being cute by getting an SR-22 from someone else.

Luis Leal: Insurance companies have been doing this for over a hundred years.

Rachel Kugel: They figured you out, you’re not gonna outsmart them. .

So in conclusion here, someone finds themselves in a situation, again with a DUI or serious traffic infraction, is there anything they can do?

Does it just have to run its course? Like insurance is gonna find out they’re gonna do what they do, they’re gonna hold it against you forever long. They’re gonna hold it against you. Is there any proactive step that an individual could take, whether it’s taking a class, whether it’s getting counseling, is there anything at all?

Is it seeking out other insurance? Is there anything strategically that an individual can do after a DUI arrest or a conviction to try?

Luis Leal: I think being proactive in a situation like that is super helpful. I mean reaching out to your insurance agent and having a conversation making sure, Hey, I have not been convicted, but this is what happened.

And allowing the insurance agent to help navigate that situation. The earlier we get involved, the more options we’re gonna have to help the customer. So getting your insurance agent involved early. Don’t call the insurance company ’cause that’s gonna open up a can of worms that you might not be prepared for. Call your insurance agent, explain the situation, make sure that they’re aware that you’ve not been convicted.

FYI, this might be coming down the way. And then, if you are in a position to fight the DUI then absolutely make sure to do that. If it turns into a lesser charge, great. That works out for everybody involved.

I think being proactive and getting your insurance agent involved early, is ultimately the best way to go.

Rachel Kugel: And things like these defensive driving classes and all that. I mean, is that just a bandaid on a gunshot wound? Is that not gonna do it?

Luis Leal: You know what’s funny is that most insurance companies don’t even offer a defensive driving discount.

There are like a handful of carriers that still offer it, and even then it’s not really that much of an impact. I think it might be in the single digits as a percentage of a discount.

Rachel Kugel: It’s not gonna be enough to move the needle.

I know some could bundle if you’ve got somebody. Maybe you can add your home insurance. Like there’s ways to bring it down a little bit or make yourself more desirable as a client. How can people find you? How can they reach out to you?

Because I think the biggest takeaway from an insured standpoint for me is how important it’s to have that relationship. People go online and get insurance through one of these like websites and they don’t have that relationship. The biggest takeaway is like if something like this happens to you and you’re lucky enough to have an agent, that agent can be part of the team, the same part of the defense team, and can help you on the financial side in the same way I can help on the legal side.

So how did that people get in touch?

Luis Leal: The way that I see insurance agents, especially a lot of the ones that I have relationships with across the country is that we want to be that professional service, just like customers have financial advisors.

They have CPAs, they have attorneys. We want to come alongside and be a part of that professional services team. I’m all over social media and I post a lot of content on insurance because I love insurance. I also post a lot of stuff about my kiddo and he’s hilarious.

It’s a lot of fun. I think I’m a good follow on social, but Luis, L-U-I-S, Leal, L-E-A-L, SA for San Antonio. luislealsa on pretty much any social that’s out there.

Rachel Kugel: And I’ll link it in the show notes as well. Thank you so much. I can’t tell you how helpful this is. It helps me advocate for my clients and I know you’re gonna help a lot of people out there.

So thank you so much.

Luis Leal: Thanks for having me, Rachel. I appreciate it.