What Happens When Good People Get Caught in the System? Erica Martini Speaks Out

Rachel Kugel: Hi everybody. I am defense lawyer Rachel Kugel, and this is Rachel Defends You. Today, I am super lucky to have an incredible guest who I know you guys are gonna totally love and appreciate and be asking for more with, and that is Erica Martini.

She has an incredible channel that she’s working on. She’s a great content creator. The channel is called The Ghetto Streets of Idaho “Stories of Our People”. It’s a work in progress, but you definitely have to check it out because over time there’s gonna be more and more content coming out from her.

And she is telling an untold story about what it’s like to live in middle America and what’s really going on out there? I am from New York City and we all have heard stories and movies about New York City, but what’s really going on in America day to day? What’s really impacting the American people, the American justice system, real American people is something that Erica can speak to.

Personally and will tell you some incredible stories that will knock your socks off, make you laugh, and I think also learn something as well. So she’s really doing incredible things. Where our interests align is that Erica is unabashedly authentic. Honest and willing to tell stories about her own life and lives of her friends and people that she knows in the community.

And that’s, I think, where our interests are aligned, because what I’m here to do is to tell these stories to hope that people can learn from them, to hope that people can see a lot of things. One, that you’re not defined by your worst day and two, what the justice system can really be about.

And how to get through it with grace and come out the other side. So thank you so much with that introduction. Thank you so much for joining me, Erica.

Erica Martini: No, thank you. That was so much for all those nice work.

Rachel Kugel: I’m so excited to, I know a little bit about your story in preparation for this.

I’m so excited to hear about it you’re on today to share with us, how you were falsely accused of DWI and what that process was like. Because we were talking before we hit record [00:02:00] and I was trying to explain to you that. Because you and I know ’cause we’ve been in the system on different sides, but we’ve been in the system.

And we know that it’s possible for a convergence of things to happen between bad luck, bad policing, corruption, poor training, and a desire to get, people can all kind of come together and really create a situation where good people can be caught up in the system. So with that, tell us a little bit about what happened to you and we can have a great conversation about it.

Erica Martini: It was the oddest experience. We were, a friend and I were driving and we were, I was driving, he was the passenger. I was pulled over because my license plate was hanging askew.

Rachel Kugel: Sounds so dangerous. What you were doing reckless driving.

Erica Martini: I would say within three minutes of the officer coming up to the car, we were asked to exit the vehicle and let him do a search and I didn’t think that, I knew there was nothing in the car. Maybe a crushed up old beer can underneath the seat. But I hadn’t been drinking that day. We both got out of the car, stood on the sidewalk.

Rachel Kugel: So you agreed to the search?

Erica Martini: Yes. And where I live in Idaho.

And you are pretty much, we know that we have rights. But. We’re scared out of them.

Rachel Kugel: You’re scared by the police and how they act towards you, you’re saying?

Erica Martini: Yeah. Well, if we try to bring it up, no. Or these are our rights, then it becomes, we’re in more trouble.

Rachel Kugel: That’s, so I think that’s two interesting points right there that are important for people to hear.

One is that legally. ’cause again, the system jurisprudence, like from a lawyer standpoint, is different than reality for individuals in the street in the moment. And so you can have legal rights. I could sit here and tell you exactly, you know, the citation what your legal rights are in that situation, and yet those legal rights can be, can feel essentially illusory or meaningless to you because you feel

you don’t really have them. It’s like a duress or a coercion you feel from previous interactions or the way an officer is dealing with you. And you don’t really have a choice. A meaning choice. The other thing I think is interesting too, about this is that, I mean, already in your story, is that it’s important for people to know that.

The more you’re like a good person. And I say that as like a term of art. Everybody’s a good person. I don’t mean it, but you know the, you’re a good person who didn’t foresee yourself as committing a crime. And so you’re much more likely to like acquiesce and agree. If you were a real criminal, if you had a body in the trunk, you would Yeah.

You know, you wouldn’t, they know. Right. Exactly. So I think that’s also important for people to know, you know? ‘Cause good people. Generally law abiding good people in the community are gonna respond to police, at least initially. Now, you’ve probably learned a lot since that time, and you might feel differently today.

But are gonna respond with acquiescence toward police, whether that’s about making statements or letting them search. And I think that’s important for people to realize, A, you have rights and you can exercise them, and B, could, people sometimes don’t know how to be criminals. They don’t know how to cover stuff up or say no to a search.

So I think that’s also like two interesting points that have already been illuminated.

Erica Martini: Yeah, it gets even better.

He sat there and went through the car and did find one old beer can and shoved underneath like the track of the seat. And, when he was calling, you know, like running my plates, I have a savage title on my car and I have been told that it is to be impounded and got it.

He didn’t care about that. He just wanted to get something else on me. He pulled me aside and asked me to do the field sobriety. And this is where my health conditions come in.

Rachel Kugel: So based on finding that one beer, can he, you’re now for the car now you haven’t, and it’s important for people to realize there’s been no erratic driving.

You were pulled over for, what is, I guess, technically license plates? Technically a violation, but certainly a pretty minor one. Having nothing to do with danger. Recklessness or moving because again, I think it’s a misconception. People picture, they hear DUI and they picture somebody driving like a crazy person being dangerous.

So you’ve done nothing dangerous. They find one old empty beer can, and that now you’re off to the races and he’s asking you to do standardized field sobriety tests.

Erica Martini: So I suffer from anemia. And I had just been in and outta the hospital getting blood transfusions. And, I have neuropathy and a vein disorder in my legs that make my legs tic swelling at times.

Wow. And so, I guess I maybe looked tired and drained out. And he kept asking me if I was under the influence of anything, and I told him no. Are you sure you haven’t smoked any marijuana? Are you sure you haven’t smoked anywhere on it? And I’m like, no. This is just the way I look. You know , I don’t have enough vitamin, I’m just chill person.

Like, well, I look drained a lot because of the lack of blood and vitamins. So I guess that could make me look like I was stoned. And then I have neuropathy in my feet and I can’t stand on two feet normally. Let alone on one foot.

And I explain that to them.

Rachel Kugel: Oh, you did tell them in the moment. A lot of times people don’t have the wherewithal and they don’t, again, they’re nervous. Which is part of this too. Now you’re on the side of the road nervous, whatever. What time of day was this? It was like 10 o’clock at night maybe.

Oh, so not two in the morning or anything like that?

Erica Martini: No, it wasn’t. And they wanted me to do it in the road, and I said, I’m not doing it in the road because I’m gonna fall. When he asked me to get on one foot. And there was, he called another officer and. They walked me over to where there was a grassy area and let me try to do the stand on one foot walk, a straight line test.

And I told them, both of you guys better stand on either side of me ’cause I will fall down. I don’t have, I can’t feel my feet at all.

Rachel Kugel: Was there video, were they videotaping?

Erica Martini: I believe so. And I did all the tests and the eye test. And when it came to like hold, like standing on one foot.

I didn’t, I refused to do it then. Not so much refuse, but told them I’m incapable of doing that.

Rachel Kugel: No, you are. And this is another point I think to make ca my caveat here is, so I’m not an attorney in Idaho. I practice in New York and New Jersey. However, for the most I think across the board.

People should know that you generally can refuse that type of test. So it’s not the same thing as refusing, let’s say, a breath test later and getting an additional charge for refusal. You can refuse to do a field sobriety test. You don’t, you’re not forced to give evidence against yourself now.

Whether or not they, that refusal can be used against you in court is a, is some states might vary whether or not that the police can then arrest you. Do they have probable cause If the person doesn’t participate. So they might, but the reality is most of the time they would’ve been arresting you anyway at that point.

Like you’re doing those tests. People think that they’re gonna do. Again, this goes back to the good people wanting to acquiesce to police officers. You feel like, I wanna do, you know, here’s this authority figure. Ask me to do something. I’m not a criminal. I wanna comply. I wanna show them I’m comply.

Maybe I’m afraid of ’em. I don’t want ’em to shoot me, whatever. So I’m gonna try to comply and you don’t realize that what they’re really doing, they’ve already decided that you’re impaired. And what they’re really doing is gathering evidence against you. They want you to fall over. They want you to not be able to do it, and they want video evidence of that happening.

Erica Martini: And after that, the test where I was walking and looking at my nose and my eyes, they gave me a breathalyzer.

Rachel Kugel: Right there on the scene or at the station?

Erica Martini: Yes, at the scene. Zero point zero zero is what I blow.

Rachel Kugel: Wow, so you blow zeros. Okay. And lemme guess they don’t let it go at that.

They determine well, she’s zero zero and we’re still seeing something. So there must be drug.

Erica Martini: And we know you’re under the influence of something. We know it. We want you to come into the station, the police station, have a blood test done and have somebody who’s more trained with field sobriety test.

Rachel Kugel: Called A DRE, a drug recognition expert.

It’s a, here’s what it really is. A police officer who’s taken an extra class and they basically do so just ’cause I know people that are listening you and I know what it is, but maybe people that are listening aren’t gonna know . So it’s a cop who’s taken an extra class and essentially what they are doing, and it’s really there, there’s a lot of controversy around this program.

It’s called the DRE program, drug Recognition Experts. They’re gonna do these field sobriety tests again, and then they’re also going to do some what feels like quasi medical stuff. Like maybe take your blood pressure, maybe take your temperature, and they’re gonna then come to some conclusion of what drug you’re on.

But. Here’s the thing. It’s a rigged thing, and I’ll tell you why it’s a rigged thing, because by the time they’re coming in, the police officer who’s been with you before is already telling them, I think she’s on marijuana. I, she has said, maybe she’s made this statement, or I found this thing, or whatever.

You know, the individual’s position might be, so he’s not really, it’s not a completely like neutral thing where he’s doing these tests and coming up with the magical answer that someone’s on marijuana. He’s doing these tests with the belief already. That you’re under the influence of marijuana and how can I make these two things maybe fit together?

Erica Martini: Yes. I went to the police station. I was, both me and my passenger were patted down. It was the male officer. And he just went at it to pat me down.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah, they should have a female officer.

Erica Martini: Are you gonna call for a female?

And he said, do I need to, or do you mind if I do it?

Rachel Kugel: That feels traumatic.

Erica Martini: And I said, well, it’s okay. You, you know, you can do it again.

Rachel Kugel: Trying to be compliant, you’re trying to be easy.

Erica Martini: But for him to automatically just have assumed it’s a right to do that when it’s not. Was wrong.

Rachel Kugel: And obviously it’s something that years later still, like, you know, when you’re telling this story, that’s a piece that popped out for you.

And like in the grand scheme of an arrest that’s like a nothing part of the arrest and yet it’s still sticks out for you. So the reality is, again, you’re trying to be compliant and easygoing. And nice to this authority figure. And, but the reality is it did bother you and it wasn’t cool and it’s really not appropriate what they did.

Erica Martini: Yeah. So I went back, I was put in handcuffs, put in the back of the police car. They let my friend drive off in my car, thank God didn’t get impounded. And they come and one guy takes my blood. And then the gentleman that came to do the more detailed. He was actually very nice.

He looked at me and saw my legs and was like, holy cow. I know that’s swollen legs. My wife had two children. I’ve never seen anybody’s legs swollen up that bad. Wow. And I’m explaining to him my medical conditions and, I think he got it a little bit. He was more understanding.

And, he wasn’t even, and now I can feel my heart myself beating outta my chest almost. but he can’t even find my pulse from the beginning. He had a hard time all the time. And so about two hours of testing I went through.

And I did do the standing on one leg and walking there.

Rachel Kugel: He had you do that even with your medical issue with the neuropathy that was visible and obvious on both?

Erica Martini: Yes. And I had blacked out from my anemia like less than a month ago, and been in the hospital and had blood transfusions and I was starting to feel like that again. And, they kept asking me if I needed to be, you know, do you want us to call the ambulance? Do you want us to call the ambulance? And I, no, not unless I’m going to jail, then I wanna go to the hospital. But I didn’t feel well.

Yeah. And I was just wore out and tired and my body was still trying to build itself back up.

Rachel Kugel: By this point you said it’s like two hours in, it’s gotta be after midnight by this point.

Erica Martini: Yes, it was. And then a lot of the eye test with the, your pupil, which I thought was really weird because I was put into a room, turned the lights were turned off with two male officers and me.

Rachel Kugel: So another moment where you felt uncomfortable.

Erica Martini: I am guessing that they were recording because they have, you look at the red lights of the camera. Yeah. But I don’t think it’s appropriate to be alone and in a room with no lights with two male officers.

Rachel Kugel: That’s very, it’s very scary for sure.

I can see why that would add to the trauma of the whole thing for sure.

Erica Martini: He couldn’t determine whether it was medical or intoxication or under the influence. Right. And he called his supervisor. And I overheard them saying, because she’s just gone out of the hospital. Even if you took blood or you take her to the hospital.

‘Cause they just wanted to take me like with an officer to the hospital. And still have me detained or arrested. That I would come back with such a cocktail of medications and drugs in my system that they wouldn’t be able to tell them.

Rachel Kugel: And I think that’s an important point also for people

’cause again, you and I know, but other people that are listening might not, and I want people to like learn from this is, you know, the other thing to know is, and what you’re pointing out. Is when you’re talking about DWI, drug allegation versus DWI alcohol. So alcohol is obvious, right? Most states it’s 0.08.

I think all states it’s 0.08 at this point. Yeah. In terms of the legal limit, and you can look fine, act fine and be fine, but if you blow 0.08 or higher, that’s enough to be technically guilty. It’s called a per se limit. That’s in the law with drugs. And this is becoming more and more important now that marijuana is legalized in a lot of states and stuff with drugs.

There’s no per se limit and many states can get like New York where I am, for example, and probably Idaho too. We can get back, although blood would be a little better. But we can get back a test that would show the presence of THC or the presence of, you know, a benzo or whatever the situation might be.

But it doesn’t show specifically how much or whether it’s affecting you right now. So blood is gonna be a little better. Because blood is generally still running through your system. Urine. Most states use urine. Urine by its very nature is garbage. The urine is out of your body. It’s not affecting you anymore.

It’s not blood. So there’s a big difference between blood and urine in testing. A big question about how long drugs stay in your body, certain kinds, and whether they’re still affecting you. So what, because it’s not illegal to have been on a benzo in the hospital a month ago. It’s illegal to be Dr.

Drinking or impaired or drug impaired while driving. And that was the issue I think they were pointing to. Was their concern with you that, Hey, she’s just been hospitalized, she was on a cocktail of things in the hospital. We don’t even know what some of those things might still show and color are results.

For better or for worse. So anyway, I know you know a lot of that, but I’m just kind of for the listening.

Erica Martini: I know and I’m learning a lot here because I gave my blood. I admitted that, you know, yes. I had drank, you know, like days before. And I had to take a lot of medications and stuff, and I don’t know if that still shows in my blood.

And if they can tell if it was that day or two days ago . that’s, it’s still scary for me because. They told me it would be a month before the blood test drop results came back.

Rachel Kugel: At a minimum. In New Jersey. It take six months. New York, I mean, at a minimum.

Erica Martini: Still nervous that they could charge me with something.

Rachel Kugel: Sure. So they let you go that day? Uncharged?

Erica Martini: Yes. They deemed it a medical issue and think that I needed. To be arrested or taken, detained to the hospital.

Rachel Kugel: Okay. So that’s wonderful. So eventually, you know, cooler heads prevailed and you weren’t charged.

And how long ago was all that?

Erica Martini: Month, just maybe less, maybe more.

Rachel Kugel: So there are things like statute of limitations, for example, where, I don’t know what it is in Idaho. I’d have to look it up. But, but there are, you know, they can’t kind of, you can’t live your life with it hanging over you for forever.

And I think, you know, it sounds to me like you had a really bad night, but unfortunately, but you know, hopefully cooler heads will prevail. ’cause like if we go back through it and we think about what actually happened, and this is like, I wanted to like take it apart, you know, is like. What actually happened was they observed no erratic driving, no indicia of impairment.

They pulled you over solely for a license plate violation. You, that means to me that you were otherized driving. Well, you received no tickets, right? No tickets. So they didn’t, they put on their license sirens. You pull over safe, safely and appropriately. You know, they come up to you, they communicate with you for some reason, and maybe this is the part that immediately starts to feel unfair for some reason, they immediately ask you to search.

Why, you know, why that’s an open-ended question for us. Like why do they immediately look at you and look at your passenger and say, can we search? Do they do that to everybody? Is it time of night?

Erica Martini: It could have been, the passenger was on felony probation.

Rachel Kugel: So maybe they saw that and it was guilt by association.

Erica Martini: I think that the law enforcement here just. Know, wants that raise, wants that promotion.

Rachel Kugel: Right. And I, you know what, that’s an important point too, especially when it comes, I mean obviously maybe they were hoping to find something bigger, like, you know, possession of something more serious. But you know, with DWI, DUI, if it’s called in Idaho, what, you know, police officers get awards for it.

So there’s a real incentive to be out there looking for it. So there’s a couple things that happen. Number one, overtime, right? A lot places will give police overtime for their involvement in your now arrest and trial. So if I was about, if I’m a cop and I was about to get off of duty at 10 and instead I arrest you, now I got three extra hours of overtime, and if it ends up going to court, I might have even more.

So there’s that financial incentive. Same with DREs. They get called in. That’s an additional financial benefit that A DRE gets by doing that training and being called in. That’s interesting to know. Yeah. And then secondarily, you know, there’s programs like MADD for example, which I have no, you know who, well, who wouldn’t be, I’m a mother and I’m against drunk driving.

Like, okay. I mean, you know, you say it in such a way that no one could be on the other side of it. You know, Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Yes. Sign me up. Okay. But what you don’t realize is that it’s also a lobbying group. It’s also a group that behind the scenes is doing things where they’re giving awards and they’re giving incentives.

And if you look and you Google and you see your local community, you’ll see that there’s Facebook posts of officers like, you know, receiving an award from MADD. So it becomes this thing of how many arrests you have and you’re the top DUI guy. So there’s an incentive to be out there looking for it.

It’s also politically a great issue because as I just kind of said with the MADD thing, like even you and I would not be pro drunk driver, right? I mean, if you put it that way, right? Nobody’s pro drunk driver. And so it’s a way that there’s almost a DUI exception to the Constitution because it’s just so politically like other types of crimes.

Drug crimes, robbery crimes, all, you know, there’s people, there’s political groups that will get behind people and say, well, there’s all these reasons for this type of crime. There’s poverty, there’s fatherless homes, there’s , you know, people being oppressed over you, whatever it is, right? The people will stand up for those groups and say, there’s reasons why these things happen and there will be defenses, or we should go easy on, or we should consider these mitigating things.

But when it comes to dwi, I, there’s none of that. Because it’s just a very political, no one is on the other side. And so it again, it’s an easy way to get good people caught up in the system. And I think you were lucky here to not, I mean, it sounds like you, you could’ve won either way, but if you had been charged, you know, you would’ve had to hire an attorney.

You would’ve had, you know, I mean, even if you win, it costs 10 grand by the time all, all in, you know, plus missing work to get to court, all these things. Even if you win, it’s still a heavy burden to bear. And just looking back at what happened here. So again, there was no erratic driving, none of that.

They searched the car, they find basically nothing. One beer can, nobody’s gonna be drunk off. Beer can, I mean, it’s not, maybe it’s an open container ticket, but nobody, you’re not gonna put drunk off what they found. You made no statements about consuming any alcohol or drugs that day.

Erica Martini: I did say that I had smoked marijuana like hours before.

And I had taken a half a Xanax hours and hours ago. But I don’t in either two of those things had any impairment on the way I was acting. And it had been long enough. And I wasn’t misusing the amount of them. And it’s a prescription that I have.

And I mean, I, it’s not like it was the first time I ever did it. And I was all messed up off of it, you know?

Rachel Kugel: But I think it’s important for people to know that you could have chosen not to answer the question if you had just, God forbid, in the future, whatever you could have not, because that’s a, because that then sets off a thing of like, okay, now we’re gonna put it through tests. Now we’re gonna call in a DRE. Now we’re gonna, right?

Erica Martini: There’s a lot of pressure. I mean, when they use a lot of tactics to trick you. To scare you, and so you’re just trying to tell them things to appease them.

But also, you know, be truthful. When you’re scared. And we are taught to think that police officers are people we can trust. They’re there to protect.

Rachel Kugel: Respect, authority. And especially, I wanna say almost even more so for women it’s like ingrained in you as a woman, especially dealing with a male officer.

It’s like ingrained in you to try to please them and cooperate and answer and not stand. It’s very hard. I’m not sure I could do it. So take it with no judgment. I’m not saying I could do it in the moment. When I get pulled over, my knees go weak, just like everybody else.

It’s scary and I think it would take a lot of fortitude to say calmly, you know, I’m just not gonna answer that question. So there’s two, you know, on the one hand you can say, well, these are your rights. You don’t have to let them search. You don’t have to answer the question. But what would it really take in terms of physical fortitude to actually, you know, to actually do it is another question.

Erica Martini: When people, where I’m from with the corruption, get lawyers from, you know, out of town or do know some laws and they try to bring them up. It aggravates the judges, the prosecutors, the policemen, so much. That you’re sent back to your cell and your next court date is set for 10 months down the line.

Rachel Kugel: So it sounds like you’re saying that you feel like the system itself has a, there’s like a, I wanna say, so in law we sometimes say trial tax, but like it’s almost like the judge or the prosecutor is going to give you like an additional tax, an additional fine be worse to you, treat you worse for standing up for yourself.

And do you feel that way with I mean in terms of your own experience or friends or whatever, do you feel that way in terms of. Do you feel like lawyers like me, like defense attorneys, could as a mouthpiece stand up for could stand up for you and assert if you had a lawyer you trusted standing next to you, would it make a difference?

Erica Martini: I think if there was enough of the great right lawyers, I mean, yeah, we could do it, we could take them down. But I have spoken to a lot of lawyers, I’ve helped people with a lot of, you know, criminal cases. and a lot of lawyers in Idaho are refusing to take clients in, I live in Cache County and Twin Falls County, because they will go to court, they will defend their client and the judge will say, oh, well I don’t care.

Even though you’re correct, I’m gonna give them this sentence I want.

Rachel Kugel: So you’re saying defense attorneys almost feel like they can’t, it’s not that they don’t want to stand up for you or whatever, but the system is such that they feel like almost like they can’t serve you. Like, how am I gonna take your money and know that I can’t.

Erica Martini: They’re just gonna do whatever they want.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah. And so. I mean, it definitely, it’s important. I think that’s another thing to point out too to people is that this is why the justice system, especially in these smaller criminal cases or municipal cases, is so important because for most people, again, good people, I keep saying that, but for most people, this is their only contact with the system like.

By the grace of God, most people are not gonna end themselves up wrapped in murder trial or you know, but most people will at some point end up in traffic court, end up with a DUI or having a loved one charged with a DUI. You know, everyone’s gonna end up in that court setting and the community should really put.

Resources, ethical and otherwise toward that because it’s like an overall trust in the system and government ’cause it’s the only time they’re gonna feel it. So if you go to court on your, you know, little old traffic ticket or your little old DUI and you feel it was treated unfair, you’re gonna assume that goes all the way up.

And it’s gonna color the way you feel about the town, the government, the taxes, you pay, all of it. It’s gonna leave a sour taste in your mouth and fairness, you know, in general.

Erica Martini: Very much so. It’s very, very corrupt where I live. And there’ll be children that commit crimes or the people that commit crimes their first time.

That are probably due to some kind of traumatic event in their life. And instead of helping them or you know binding programs, they go straight to prison. And get locked in a cage and then they’ll end up institutionalized and spend 25 to 30 years in prison.

Rachel Kugel: Well, jail just makes you a better criminal because now you, now you have no options.

When you come out, you know, now you’re gone for broke. You got no, a lot of times you’re taken away from your family. You don’t have those social connections or the safety net. And now you’re friends are other criminals. So the only, so you’d be the only people you know are other people in jail, you know, and that just leads to more criminality and recidivism and ending up back there.

Erica Martini: Yeah. The original problem that you had never was resolved.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah. And I wanna say too that is also like projected even more out when you’re talking about drugs and alcohol because you’ve got not only whatever trauma people might have gone through and all that, but when you’re talking about DWI or other substance use related offenses, you know, there’s a lot of lip service paid to like wanting to get people help.

Treatment courts and this and that, and it’s like if you just throw someone out, I mean, it’s just, it’s not the way to, you know, you’re not helping anybody. Eventually they’re gonna get out and you haven’t done anything to help them deal with their old, the issue that caused it in the first place.

Erica Martini: And the whole, you know, when you get in trouble, you are supposed to pay your debt to society. And when somebody’s already done 17 years in prison and you’re gonna send them for another five. Yeah. They are not paying their debt to society at all. We’re just paying for them.

Rachel Kugel: And it’s also a moment, it’s paying your debt to society, but it’s also a moment like a fork in the road where the powers that be are involved in your life and could try to move you toward a positive outcome.

Could try to provide treatment options, could try to provide social safety nets. So it’s a moment, you know, I mean the bad thing about getting arrested for something is that the government’s in your life, the good thing is that the government’s in your life, and maybe if you needed some intervention, it’s a moment where you could get it, you know, where you could take a kid that was struggling and say, let’s get a social worker.

Let’s get drug and alcohol treatment. But you know, that’s not, that’s not always the goal of the system. And you know, it just creates more criminals, quite frankly, and turns good people into criminals.

Erica Martini: I see it. The effects of it on families and people every day. Goosebumps almost crying.

Rachel Kugel: You can’t throw people away.

You know, people are worth more than their worst day. We all are gonna make a bad choice at some point, and some of us might get arrested for it, some of us might get away with it, but we’re all gonna make a bad choice at some point and you know, it’s not fair to judge people by their worst day and throw them out.

That’s the part I’m, you know, people have redeeming qualities. I believe that like, people deserve second chances, maybe even third chances. And especially when we’re talking about drug and alcohol involvement because there’s a whole other layer to that, you know, is not the same as just doing something evil or bad, or this is about being broken and needing help.

And it would be nice if the system could focus more on that. And in your case, you know, just to go back to what happened, it’s like here they were so quick to make assumptions about you, maybe because of, you know, how you looked, because of some medical issues. How you sounded, again, because of the influence of medical issues.

You know, whatever their perception in the moment, their judgements they were quick to make assumptions and then fit things into their assumptions. So like. For example, they’re putting you through field sobriety tests. They could choose to say, you know, she just told me she has neuropathy and she’s not gonna be able to do these tests.

Maybe what I’m seeing has an innocent explanation. But that’s not. Instead they go, okay, what I’m seeing fits my narrative, you know, fits my narrative that I’m, that I came to the table with. And so that’s how someone could be. And you got, I don’t wanna say lucky ’cause the right thing happened. It’s not luck.

You got to a place where justice seems to have worked, thank God. But you can see how easily. People don’t have that benefit and do get charged. And I see it every day. I’ve represented people with seizure disorders that were having a seizure and got charged with DUI. I represented a guy, an old man who was deaf and they took his lack of like responding to them as like, oh, he’s, he’s messed up.

He can’t respond. The man is deaf. They even charged him with refusal ’cause he didn’t understand what they were asking him to do when they asked him to take the test.

Erica Martini: That’s awful. And really it should be. The law enforcement they should have interpretation for him.

Rachel Kugel: There should be training and experience about these things. And unfortunately, you know, listen, there is training. You know, these standardized field sobriety tests come from NHTSA, the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration. It says right in the manual, if someone has, you’re supposed to ask if they have issues with their backs or legs or balance that might affect their ability to do these.

And if they say they do, you actually can decide not to give those tests, and there’s other options, different tests you could give instead, or not give the test at all. You shouldn’t take somebody who just told you that they have a medical issue that’s gonna prevent ’em from doing the test and then put ’em through it.

Because I guarantee you, if it had gotten to the point of trial, that officer would’ve testified that you couldn’t stand on one foot because he believed you were impaired and you would’ve left out. You wouldn’t even, you wouldn’t even heard. You know, that that you had medical issues unless your attorney put them forward, you know, so this is where good advocacy also comes in.

I can’t thank you enough for sharing the story with me. I’m so glad that it had a happy ending. God willing and will continue to. How did going through this experience, like, how are you now? I mean, do you feel like, are you nervous to drive? I hear people say they’re afraid to drive sometimes after.

Erica Martini: I’m afraid to drive now because mostly if my medical condition is causing me to possibly cause an accident.

That’s my main thing. I don’t want to hurt anybody else. And so, if it’s unsafe. I don’t wanna be driving. Number one, of course. But then them knowing who I was and her, you know, and now look, they get raises. Oh, we’ll get her again.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah. Right. We’re looking for that license plate again.

Right. I mean, it’s a real, you know, it’s a real concern. And I think people don’t realize too, that there’s trauma. You know, after something like this, you know, just that involvement with the police, the going, being arrested, the handcuffs, the whole thing it’s traumatic . And it sticks with you and it scares you.

And, and I guess ultimately, you know, that’s, like I said, where our interests kind of collide is that’s just to take it back before we end, you know, the subject of what you’re working on in terms of your content is really about authentically sharing these like crazy traumatic experience. Can you speak a little bit to that and how people can find it?

Erica Martini: So we live in a rural area. There’s a lot of drugs and alcohol here. That’s our entertainment and we’re wild and crazy. And then you get, once the system gets their claws into you, and it’s always at a young age, I call it tag and release. And they’ll be arrested, spend years and years in prison and get an unfair case, be given a public defender who has thousands of other people that he’s defending a prosecutor who could easily be beat because he also has that huge caseload.

But a public defender that doesn’t try find.

Rachel Kugel: Yeah, no, I hear you. I always say to people, ’cause a lot of times people will call and say like, they’re thinking of staying with the public defender. And I always tell people. The public defenders I know are great lawyers and it’s usually not about being a good lawyer or not.

They’re good lawyers. They mean well, they’re good lawyers. And if it comes that, the difference between, ’cause sometimes people say like, I need a real lawyer. Right. I’m telling you, they’re real lawyers. They’re great lawyers. They care. The difference is exactly what you pointed out, the caseloads.

So the difference is a private attorney like me and my firm. Who have a luxury of having less cases. So where I might have 30 cases at any given time, they have a thousand or 200, or depending on the county, you know, so 30 cases is a whole different ballgame. You know, it allows you to have contact with people all the time and talk to them all the time.

And your staff knows who they are and, right. I mean, it just allows you more involvement in each individual case versus trying to juggle hundreds of cases. They mean, well, they’re good people, they’re good lawyers. You can’t, you can’t go wrong with them in that sense. But they are busy and you’re not gonna get maybe the level of customer service that a private friend can maybe deliver.

Erica Martini: Yeah. And so I’m just trying to raise awareness about the effects that it’s having on families, children, our future. And also just gets to know that we’re funny. And we hardly even grow potatoes in Idaho.

Rachel Kugel: What? I thought that’s all that happens.

Erica Martini: Nope. Very few potatoes.

Rachel Kugel: Well, it’s incredible.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is. It’s so meaningful. I think it’s gonna help a lot of people. Also, you know, it’s a real good, it, what I was so excited was to dig my claws into just taking it apart, you know, because I think it really does show the problems with, you know, making assumptions about people with not having that training be right with, you know, ignoring medical and innocent explanation.

And it just shows where that could lead. And thankfully, you know, like I said, it, it led o it ended up okay for the time being in your case, but. There are hundreds of other people where it did not end up okay and maybe from hearing this, they’ll feel a little freer to speak to an attorney about it or to talk about the details or have somebody pick it apart as we kind of just did with yours

together. Because, you know, sometimes people get charged and they just feel [00:39:00] embarrassed and they don’t seek out. Help, whether it’s from a lawyer or whether it’s from family support and they just, I mean, somebody in a case like yours might just plead guilty just ’cause they don’t wanna have to spend money or talk about it.

So, you know, I really do think to hurry up and get it done with and I think so I think that this will do a lot of good. And so I appreciate it and it really does help the system too. So lastly, tell, tell people where, remind them. Where can they find this?

Erica Martini: So it should be within the month.

Rachel Kugel: Now you have reasons to. Get it going.

Erica Martini: Yes. We’re learning the process. We have a YouTube channel. It’s  The Ghetto Streets of Idaho “Stories of Our People”. And if you wanna have lots of laughs and here’s some political things down the road.

Well, after we feel more comfortable. And brave enough to share. We will. But it’s gonna be fun.

Rachel Kugel: Well definitely people should check it out. Thank you so much for sharing your story of Idaho with us and for being brave enough to do it. So thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Erica Martini: Yes, thank you very much.